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Rob Eaman
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My zt1170 laptop just turned off last night while I was in the middle of typing an Outlook message. My hands were only on the keyboard keys, so I know it's nothing I did. And though the PC had been on with AC connected for the last 6 hours, I got no warning whatsoever that it was turning off. I was in Outlook, Internet Explorer x2 (one Java applet), and MSN explorer at the time, and it completely powered off while I was typing (as opposed to restart). No cords came loose, and there were no unusual power fluctuations in the room or anything else I could tell.
I think I've started to hear about this issue with a couple laptops in this forum. As I've only had this laptop for about 45 days, this is the first I've seen of this problem, and the last I want to see of it. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it an ongoing problem with the zt1170?
Thanks in advance...
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Sort Answers By:
Date or Points
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Ken Yankee
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May 9, 2002 04:49:48 GMT
3 pts
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Couple of things. Were you on battery? If so, how much charge did you have? I think by default you should get a warning if your low on battery. Did your fan kick in if hot?? (Shouldn't be if your only doing Email). Did you have your laptop on a hard surface or on your lap?? (You must keep an even airflow under the unit to keep the CPU cool)
Ken |
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John Webb
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May 9, 2002 12:53:31 GMT
2 pts
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I had the same thing happen to me on my zt1170. It was on a desk, running on AC power, and I was typing a document. It happened 2 days ago and hasn't happened since. |
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Rob Eaman
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May 9, 2002 15:29:30 GMT
N/A: Question Author
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I had my laptop on a hard kitchen table the whole time, and it had been consistently plugged into AC power throughout the day, with no exception. The power cable did not come loose, as I checked it immediately after the quick power off. The fan had been on intermittently throughout the day, but was not on at that particular moment when the laptop shut off.
I was able to turn the laptop on immediately thereafter, and have not had a problem since, but I'm wondering if many others have run into this problem, and/or how to avoid it in future.
Thanks! |
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MK
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May 9, 2002 17:19:05 GMT
2 pts
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Yes, I have been having the same problem ever since we got this laptop in January.
I hope HP will do something about this. |
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Alma McDonald
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May 11, 2002 23:39:07 GMT
2 pts
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I bought my zt1175 two weeks ago and have experienced the sudden power off for no apparent reason on three occasions.
I had been thinking it happened because I had loaded MS Office Professional software on an XP Home operating system, but now I guess that's not the reason. |
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Robin
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May 13, 2002 01:12:29 GMT
4 pts
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I have a Pavilion N5170 that turns off, it's at the point I cannot use it anymore because it will not stay on. I tried replacing the PCA switchboard for $ 30 and it's still broke. It's a $ 1600 piece of junk that broke two months out of warranty. After reading about all of the problems the other people are having with power, fans, etc. I am leary of HP being able to fix the problem without alot of grief. My advice is if you can still return it do so and get another brand. My son's girlfriend also had an HP with the same problem and returned it for something else. |
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Rob Eaman
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May 13, 2002 02:25:23 GMT
N/A: Question Author
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Just got *another* power off on Saturday morning, again while typing a message in Outlook, though this time when also playing Windows Media Player. A song was going, my Outlook and a couple web browsers. Just completely shut off without a moment's notice, on AC power.
That's twice now in the last 3 weeks. Anyone have an idea what's causing this?
Rob |
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Coastie
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May 14, 2002 12:05:59 GMT
3 pts
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zt1180
I also just had this problem. I was using IE and then it suddenly powered off without warning, or saving any word. |
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Jeff Illian
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May 14, 2002 14:46:21 GMT
3 pts
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I had the exact same problem on my zt1180. I called tech support and they basically had me disable a bunch of things in XP but it continued to happen.
Eventually the power plug on the back of the PC pushed in so I had to return the unit for service. As part of the service they replaced the mother board. Of course when they sent it back to me it wouldn't turn on at all...
So, I sent it back AGAIN, got the mother board replaced AGAIN and since then it hasn't powered off once. I even re-enabled all the stuff that they had me turn off. |
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Abhijit
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May 17, 2002 05:13:52 GMT
1 pts
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I am also facing same problem with ZT1180. In addition to this when ever I try to enter into BIOS its turn off within 10 sec |
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Claire Belisle
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May 24, 2002 15:22:16 GMT
2 pts
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Hey, I'm having the same problem. HP is sending FEDEX to pick it up. My hubby is going to remove the hard drive first since they don't guarantee that they won't reformat it. |
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Brian Auyoung
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May 26, 2002 09:45:33 GMT
7 pts
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My hubby is going to remove the hard drive first since they don't guarantee that they won't reformat it.
That's not a good idea. It makes it rather difficult for them to replicate the problem. But more importantly, they can return the unit unserviced with a note indicating "customer abuse" simply because a part (the hard drive) has been removed. |
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Gustavo Salvador
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May 26, 2002 18:30:23 GMT
4 pts
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I have two (2) suggestions:
1. Update your BIOS drive and all HP hardware drivers.(maybe they fixed this problem sometime ago and didnt told anyone).
2. Have you ever thought about an VIRUS? You can laugh but, this is an simple and very easy thing to be happing because of the virus. Try check all your softwares that always become enable when Windows iniciate and comes up. (even HP's).
I just want try help you all since this an very annoying problem.
Good Luck,
Gustavo. |
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Johnny
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May 27, 2002 13:39:38 GMT
4 pts
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On the ZT you can remove the drive and keep your data safe without worrying about the warranty as it is customer replaceable. The only problem is if the problem is software related they will not be able to reproduce it when they use a different drive. |
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Lance Tucker
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May 27, 2002 17:32:57 GMT
7 pts
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Posted this on another thread, but my ZT100 has died three times in three months. Each time while hooked up to the web. Seem familar to everyone?
I don't know the connection between it all, but I use DSL hooked up through the network adapter. Running stock Win XPHE with updates from MS.
Unit is a Celery 1.066 CPU (that's what it was referred to many years ago when introduced) with 512MB PC-133 ram. Nothing special.
Each time it has died, pushing the power switch brought it back to life and I was able to resume surfing. Have used the unit extensively since I bought it and no other times or situations have cashed it to crash. Really quite pleased with it, just wish it would give me a couple of seconds of coughing before it decides to die.... |
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harvey motulsky
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Jun 12, 2002 17:37:19 GMT
8 pts
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My zt1190 does this about once every 2-3 weeks. WHile on AC power. Battery works fine. I think this is what is supposed to happen if the chip overheats, but my fan works and the system doesn't seem particularly hot when it shuts down. |
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Rob Eaman
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Jun 12, 2002 17:49:29 GMT
N/A: Question Author
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This has happened a total of three times to me in the last 3 months. Same thing every time: connected via modem to the Internet, and either in Outlook and Windows Media Player or something similar at the time.
I can't explain it, and it definitely is on AC power and gives no warning on any of the three occasions.
Generally, it's happened so infrequently as to not worry me a great deal, however, and the power button brings it right back to life.
Any idea what might be causing this?
Rob |
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Bill Cawlfield
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Jun 13, 2002 18:26:21 GMT
5 pts
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I have had the same problem with my 1170. It happened the first time about a week after buying it. Returned it to dealer and they swapped the unit. I swapped the hard drives because I had programs, etc on the first one.
The power off still happened on the new model. I have called support. They had never heard of this problem! I upgraded the Bios. Another tech suggested recalibrating the battery. That took 8 hours, overnight.
I have tried everything. Nothing seems to work. About every week, while I am typing, the unit just shuts off. HP has suggested sending it in for repair. The problem does not happen on cue, so I have no idea how Repair will diagnose it! |
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Todd Etter
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Jun 13, 2002 18:39:36 GMT
9 pts
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My N5150 shuts down like this. There are many postings on this problem with no answer from HP other than send them back. And even HP can't fix them because it's such an intermittent problem that takes requires real world troubleshooting skills. I've replaced the memory and the CPU inexpensively (thanks to Ebay) and still it shuts down. I've opened the case and used freeze spray to keep the CPU VERY cool (frozen) and it still shuts down. I sprayed everything I could reach with the top cover removed, power supply, hard drive, and areas of the mother board. It still shuts down. Somewhere inside this thing is a cheap temperature sensor that must be by-passed. Does anyone know where this could be? Some technical documentation would be useful. I'm not going to buy a whole new mother board. By-passing the thermal protection is my best guess at making these PC's usable. |
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Adam Raymond
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Jun 13, 2002 19:41:07 GMT
6 pts
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I have the same problem. I have formatted my computer several times and have had the same result with XP Home, XP Pro, Win 98, and Win 2000. It seems to happen when I have multiple programs running and I am typing. I have never noticed it happen when it was just sitting there.
I regret buying this machine more and more each passing day. |
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Brad Halbach
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Jun 13, 2002 21:56:21 GMT
3 pts
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I get the same result with my pavillion n5150. I tried every thing. I determined it was not software related and I think I determined it was due to over heating. It appeared that my fan would not spin after I initially turned on the system. I just ordered a new fan kit and installed it but the fan still does not work I have installed new bios, but I am afraid that the laptop is not telling the cpu fan to turn on. It does not ever want to come on any more. So I think the laptop crashs when the core temp gets too high. |
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Joseph Michalik
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Jun 14, 2002 17:11:55 GMT
3 pts
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There is no need for me to elaborate on this issue since this problem has been detailed in this Subject area and others in this discussion group. I have had this problem since January, sent it to HP three times, dealt with the QA engineer, and currently the unit continues to have this problem. Basically, HP has no idea what the problem is and they are just stalling at this time. All I want now is a refund. |
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Michael Blair
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Jun 14, 2002 17:33:43 GMT
1 pts
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Yes, agreed... A refund for this obviously defective product would be great! |
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Brad Halbach
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Jun 14, 2002 17:42:32 GMT
1 pts
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I talked with support today, and even if I spend the $269 to try to get the problem fixed there is no warranty or guarentee this won't happen again in another 90 days. |
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Joseph Michalik
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Jun 14, 2002 18:07:11 GMT
2 pts
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One question just to clear any possibile causes:
Are you running SQL server on your laptop? |
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Rob Eaman
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Jun 14, 2002 18:23:49 GMT
N/A: Question Author
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Nope. No SQL server here. Thinking that the problem is one of overheating--per an earlier posting in this thread--but don't know for certain. |
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Brad Halbach
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Jun 14, 2002 18:24:24 GMT
1 pts
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I am running Sql Server on my laptop as well as a lot of other software like Microsoft Great plains.
Why? Is there a conflict with this? |
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Joseph Michalik
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Jun 14, 2002 18:32:05 GMT
4 pts
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I was asking this question since my laptop appeared to have this issue happen more often after loading SQL. I have shutdown the SQL services including SQL manager around 12:00pm est and currently have no had the shutdown occur. In comparison, I had this happen twice within 1 hour this morning and 1 more time a bit later. The first occured before the unit even had a chance to get warm.
I don't feel that this is a heating issue since I have tested the unit by contiuously running Norton AV for at least two hours. This test provides very I/O and CPU activity and yet the unit would not die. The times the unit would fail is under low activity such as typing. I would not fail with no activity |
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Brad Halbach
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Jun 14, 2002 18:41:17 GMT
1 pts
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I have noticed that the machine does not appear to be warm, but I have been running SQL server on the system since january and My problems started last saturday. I am completely lost as far as the diagnosis. The fact is that my fan definitely never runs except for about 5 seconds at startup. This is after I replaced the fan too.
Can anyone out there tell me how their fan responds during regular operation? |
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Joseph Michalik
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Jun 14, 2002 19:06:12 GMT
1 pts
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In your event log, do you have any warning messages such as:
Source: EventSystem
The COM+ Event failed to file the ConnectionMade method.... |
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Bill Cawlfield
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Jun 14, 2002 21:00:45 GMT
4 pts
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Well, more updates. I find the same thing re: typing. It seems to happen when a simple function such as typing in Word or on a chat room on eBay. Not real hard tasks.
My fan does turn on from time to time. I have installed the latest video drivers, new bios, and just yesterday set my screen to only 16 Bit. Still good enough.
No shut down in last 24 hours. But it could go for days without a problem. We all seem to be stabbing in the dark for answers.
HP seems to have the same problem. No answers. I just wish all support people I have talked to would at least acknowledge that there is a problem. |
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Brad Halbach
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Jun 14, 2002 21:34:21 GMT
1 pts
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I am running windows 2000 server OS. I am curious what everyone else is running out there? |
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Michael Blair
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Jun 15, 2002 02:15:00 GMT
4 pts
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I agree with the low stress conditions to cause this. My first one shutdown with no extra software installed! It usually shuts down when typing (word, browsing or coding). I can see no pattern other than it shuts down at time that I would NEVER expect. Low heat (as in shortly after startup) and low stress.
Hp/Compaq???? Confess to the problem! Admit it IS a problem! Look at the percentage of people in the forum with this issue and then think about all those who are NOT posting here. Percentage wise this is HUGE!! Refund/replace.. I dont care I just want a laptop that works!! I would be willing to pay a prorated fee for my 'use'. |
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Chris Goddard
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Jun 24, 2002 00:48:09 GMT
5 pts
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I'm sad to say that I have this problem as well on a zt1180! I bought it in January and didn't really use the battery much because i'm always near an outlet. I went to use it on battery one day and poof! no power. Plugged it in and it was fine. unplugged AC power wile it was on and the whole thing shut off! I called support and they told me to run calibration by pressing F6 at bootup. I did that and I see a calibration menu, asking that I hit C to calibrate or s to skip. I press C and the unit shuts off and no charging indicator lights are lit. If I unplug it and plug it in, the charging light comes on. HP says there should be something that displays while the 4 hour calibration process happens. Has anyone else tried this and seen this mythical display? If so, i have to send this thing back for servce!
Thanks,
Chris
(Message edited for offensive language by moderator.) |
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max evert
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Jun 24, 2002 19:19:38 GMT
6 pts
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I have been helping a girl with a zu1175 and it has this problem. She had it for months working fine, then it started powering off. Now if powers up only on AC and blue screens before it finishes loading XP. The battery will no longer take a charge.
I used to have to do support where we had Dell laptops and went through this same thing. They had a line of latitudes that had a motherboard problem. No matter how many times I called or explained, the frontline techs usually had no idea or denied everything. So I had to sit there and go thru the whole script with them - it got to where I would ask the questions on the script before they got to them. And everytime, they eventually sent the same repair guy, he'd replace the motherboard, and it would work again. |
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Dan Stegink
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Jun 27, 2002 17:12:25 GMT
3 pts
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I have had similar problems with my N5195 pav laptop. I had added a 128MB Kingston memory module in March (bought at the same time as some tax software!), and started running into problems shortly afterward. I've tried a number of things, but recently took out the memory. I've not had problems since then. So, no hotfix redos, S3 drivers, etc.
FYI, I have Win ME - not XP.
I would sugest to all that you check the memory modules. At a minimum, reseat them. If you can, get a stick from a different memory chip maker and replace what is in there.
btw - see the other posts that suggest removing Windows XP hotfix Q317277 and update S3 video drivers. Not sure what this means for us non-XP users!
Good luck |
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Joseph Michalik
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Jul 1, 2002 21:27:06 GMT
1 pts
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I feel 90% sure that I have found the cause and and solution for the shutdown issue. I will keep you posted once I am 100% certain. This should be at the end of this week. |
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Charles Mitchell
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Jul 2, 2002 15:24:40 GMT
6 pts
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Ok Everyone, I have posted to these groups before, and here is your problem. The motherboards are defective. I don't know if it is a bad bios program or physical defective part on the motherboard. I had the same problem with my N5190. I tried everything, swapped everything. Flashed the bios, etc. After purchasing a motherboard on ebay for an N5400 series, the problem has gone away and not returned. I was to the point where I could no longer boot. So here's the deal, swapped memory, video, cpu, even hard drive and problem was there. New motherboard, problem went bye bye. I even went as far as to check my solder joints on the motherboard for a bad one, resoldered anything suspicious and the problem did not go away. HP engineers need to check with the power components on the motherboards. On the power PCB there are test points for voltages. After the shutdowns, some power remains on but we lose a 5 volt signal on the pcb. If HP is listening, check this, and they will see what I am talking about, so if you can find a motherboard cheap, buy it. HP wants $500 for one. I got one on ebay with a 700MHZ CPU for $200. |
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Roger Solano
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Jul 3, 2002 15:39:45 GMT
4 pts
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I have a zt1175, it reboots or turn off itself randomly. It has done it like 4 times. This morning it rebooted itself while the fan was on. It gave me the impression (I am not sure about it) that it rebooted when the fan was turning off.
I have sent the machine once to HP service because once trying to watch a DVD the cpu started to run at 144 Mhz so it was unable to do anything. After it cooled off the problem was solved. HP servece people told me that there should be a problem with my motherboard and that I should sent it to them but after it got there all they did was to instal WCPUCLK and monitor the cpu speed for a while. The problem did not apeared.
I think that this may be a and overheating problem. My computer is still on factory waranty and I do not know what to do. I know that there is something wrong but because the problems are so unfrequently they can not duplicated and simply do nothing. What should I do?
Thanks |
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Todd Etter
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Jul 3, 2002 16:10:38 GMT
Unassigned
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I agree that the system board is the problem. After swapping CPU, memory, and re-seating everything inside, my shut down problem is still there. But replacing the system board is not an economical option. And the risk is you???ll get another lemon. In the meantime try this. Re-flash the bios. It can???t hurt. I???ve heard of people having luck with external fans and even rulers placed under the laptop to increase bottom airflow. But the unit is not getting too hot. It???s just too stupid to know that. The temperature monitoring circuit and control software is out of calibration. Somebody in marketing ignored someone in engineering and made the case more attractive or thinner as they created an internal thermal trap at a critical location. It???s under the system board somewhere. And because the Intel mobile CPU has no area cut out for an external thermal diode, I???m guessing it???s under the CPU socket or possibly even embedded on the bottom of the CPU. At any rate, a small gap of air in a critical location could make all the difference in the world. Remove the CPU with a twist from a small screwdriver in the slot of the ZIF socket. Now when you re-insert the CPU, lift it up, or even break up a flat toothpick and lay it under the CPU between the socket and the CPU to create an air gap. Goop up the top of the CPU with heat sink grease from Radio Shack. And only give the fan/heat sink assembly a light tightening, allowing it to float on the springs, as designed. Lastly, take some stick on rubber feet, from Radio Shack, and give the laptop more clearance from the desk surface. If all else fails, keep a frozen plastic pack of blue ice under your pavilion at all times. Be sure to send a photo to HP with a ???Wish You Were Here??? postcard. |
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Todd Etter
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Jul 9, 2002 00:37:32 GMT
Unassigned
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In addition to my last message, to improve airflow, remove the top panel with the two screws on the display hinge and use the notebook without it. Not very pretty, but much more functional. |
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Todd Etter
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Jul 9, 2002 03:40:54 GMT
Unassigned
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One final curious fact that I noticed was that a DVD plays for hours. Try it. The HP DVD player switches the video mode to 800 X 600 and the S3 Savage/IX video chip runs cooler. If I tried to switch it back to 1024 X 768 mode, it would die within seconds. I updated the video driver with s3qcxy07.exe and noticed immediate improvement. The download page says it's for omnibook and pavilion gc but the install says pavilion Nxxxx series. Now I???m even back to 1024 X 768 mode with no problems so far. New flashed bios. And some extra airflow with bigger rubber feet and top panel removed. But I think after a night of testing, I???ll be able to re-install the top panel. I need this thing to work for an upcoming business trip. Good luck to everyone else. |
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Susan Dobbins
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Jul 9, 2002 19:39:38 GMT
Unassigned
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I'm very sorry to see that I and my shut-off problem appear to be in extremely good company! I've an 1170 since February and it has shut off about 3 times in the last month - no rhyme or reason, with or without AC power and doing little more than typing or reading email. I anxiously await the promised solution! |
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Daniel Zahner
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Jul 9, 2002 23:47:48 GMT
Unassigned
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Hi Rob:
I started having the same problem on my "vintage" N3250 about a month ago.
After trying several different solutions, I disabled the power management option in the system bios. It has been week and the problem has not re-occurred. (I keep thinking it will.. but who knows?)
Regards,
Dan Z. |
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William Winters
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Jul 10, 2002 18:35:50 GMT
Unassigned
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I have the same problem with my ZT1155, which I purchased about a month ago.
I have been using it for work and the "shut down problem" has caused me to lose valuable work. Work that I have spent much time in preparing. The laptop shuts down, seemingly randomly, about two to three times a day. I use a Word quite a bit and it happens in that and appears to happen in other applications as well.
I hope that someone can figure the problem out. I have a feeling, like some others in this forum, that the problem is heat related. Unfortunately, the problem may not be fixable.
I am going to demand a refund. Does anyone know how to go about getting a refund? |
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Den
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Aug 5, 2002 16:44:15 GMT
Unassigned
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Ditto, I have a xh455, just started shutting down this morn, while Typing, and only typing.
Den |
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Isaac Behrens
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Aug 5, 2002 17:22:09 GMT
Unassigned
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What info is the magic bunny... The power managment stuff? 'cause that did not fix my problem. I have tried propping up the machine too...
When the machine is hot and has powered off and I turn it back on, sometimes it will power itself back off again before the POST is even complete!
Thanks,
Isaac |
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Pookhal
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Aug 6, 2002 13:43:03 GMT
Unassigned
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Wow. I didn't realize that just about anyone with an HP laptop had this problem. Had I known, I would have waited and purchased one from another company.
Anyway, has anyone thought about writing to other sources like magazines or research parties so that THEY can run their own tests and diagnostics on HP laptops? Or at least make let other consumers be aware of the problem?
I mean, seeing that we're not getting anywhere with the manufacturer/product of the products itself ... |
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Teresa Leonard
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Aug 7, 2002 04:22:27 GMT
Unassigned
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Ditto! My laptop is an N5290. OEM ME loaded. I worked for 3 days with Microsoft to try to install the XP upgrade to see if it really was the software issue as I was told by store. No dice. The ONLY way I could get it to stay on long enough to install the upgrade software was to elevate the unit, use a clip fan, and turn my AC way down. THEN, it loaded no problem. I've had HP techs tell me that if it was a heat issue, the unit would just power down. Well, DUH, it is getting worse every day!! Stopped using the battery to help prevent heat build-up. Happens most often when using wireless network card. (I guess they'll tell me that's not their fault, since it's a peripheral!)
Symptoms: auto shut downs, central keys that stop working, and a fan that RARELY turns on.
When: Typing or normal use conditions on a flat surface.
Cure from HP: Deny everything! |
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Jody LaFerriere
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Aug 9, 2002 14:14:30 GMT
Unassigned
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I have posted this in the ZT1180-specific thread about this problem, but mine started doing this about a week after I got it (in January).
I called HP tech support twice, and didn't get much support. They "weren't aware" of this problem. (How many people have to call before they become "aware"?)
Tech suggested I use the BIOS upgrade that they'd posted, but I cannot do this without a floppy drive, which doesn't come with the 1180! (That's a rant for another day, requiring me to buy equipment to upgrade the BIOS)
Anyway, two things:
1. When first researching this issue, I found a message thread on some site that said that on model xyz (can't recall) they identified THIS SAME problem as an overheating chip and they adjusted the BIOS to fix the problem. I just haven't seen a BIOS update to address this with the 1180.
2. I went to Staples and bought this little swivel thingy that lifts the laptop and angles it, letting air flow under the system. I went from having the problem once a week (or more) to once in three months. I HIGHLY recommend this solution. I can live with this system now, although I wish to heck I'd known about this before spending so much on this system.
The product I bought is a Traveler CoolPad from this company: http://www.roadtools.com/. It's 20 at Staples. |
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Clement
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Aug 12, 2002 19:20:16 GMT
Unassigned
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guys guys guys, this is a problem with the motherboard that HP notebooks have. If u call support they are just going to tell u to disable this and that without a problem.the only way to get it up and running for a few months without a problem is to send it out to a HP service station and get it fixed. Of course if u dont have a warantty you would end up paying $250 for the problem.
This is the second time i am sending it in today.
My only advice is, if its still in the warantty try to dump it for an IBM or something better.
Good Luck |
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Shaun Gallant
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Aug 18, 2002 01:56:06 GMT
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I'm having the same problem on a zt1130 that's about 6 weeks old. In my case it seems to be heat related. I can make it power itself off by using any program that pushes CPU usage to 100%. I can also make it die by using the included diagnostics and running the advanced memory and fan tests. The neat thing is that if I run the fan test, it shows the cpu as being 86C which is hotter than my athlon gets. The fan runs intermittently, but doesn't cool the CPU enough, and when it gets hot enough, the BIOS powers the system off to avoid burning out the CPU. HP really has a big product flaw here. At least they've agreen to service mine, but it'll be gone for at least 15 business days so I'm told.
Shaun |
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Barry Pardee
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Aug 27, 2002 22:58:19 GMT
Unassigned
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Pavilion XH485
Windows ME
AMD Athlon 1Ghz
256MB
Powers down when overheated
Can't do a defrag without overheating.
Even with a big fan behind the notebook, ice packs, rubber feet underneath...
Tried reinstalling the original OS...
Flashed newest BIOS and installed newest drivers... no luck... |
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Elizabeth Vail
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Aug 28, 2002 05:27:53 GMT
Unassigned
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Let me guess,IE6?. I posted
a reply earlier.Try changing
your power option setting to standard instead of optimum.I
also use selective start up to
keep my scanner from starting
w/windows.so far these have
helped for about 6 months.I
only have trouble when I run
the MSN programs you listed.
Maybe 2-3 times since December
Good luck
Betsie V. |
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PDS
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Aug 31, 2002 05:25:30 GMT
Unassigned
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Hi
This problem is also existing in my Toshiba Laptop.
Make sure you notice the temperature of your system when the incident happens again.
My laptop was hot when power swetiched off, and I started to use it with lower surface well above the table (used some prop for the support) so that air is well ventillated. Now it works perfectly. |
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Sanjay Sheth
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Aug 31, 2002 18:06:16 GMT
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Happens on my zt1170 as well about once every 1-2 weeks. I have noticed that I usually have my finger holding down the shift button when it usually happens ... I thought it may have something to do with the hp not handling correctly overlapping IRQ inputs (i.e. repeating irq's coming in from the shift key at the same exact time the computer is getting irq's from some other device).
Considering the large # of people with this model experiencing the problem, perhaps what is needed is some type of online petition / organized webpage where others with the same problem could document their problem. Then, we can direct HP's attention to the matter and note the large # of occurences of the problem. |
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Andrew Toth
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Sep 24, 2002 13:04:37 GMT
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I've run into the same problem for the past three months with my pavillion n5150 and it is progessively getting worse. after it happen the first time I thought the battery had just died but when I restarted it it worked fine and the battery was still 40% charged. A few days later it happened again and I started hearing sounds like a frying egg coming from the case. I though my hard drive was crashing but ran the diagnostics and found that the 600 mhz core was running closer to 400mhz while on the optimal power setting with the computer plugged in. I only found this out after changing one of the options in the advaced diag menu to warn on cpu speed. the system seem to work fine when in battery mode or plugged in without the battery attached, but when both are present at the same time, and especially if the battery is charging, the system shuts off with no warning. The fan is running at least half the time this happens as well. The system worked fine for a little more than a year and actually recommended HP laptops to friends and family, but I can't do that any more unless this is clearly portrayed as a problem explicity by HP. Anyway try checking you cpu speeds and see if they are still running at your systems quoted levels. |
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Douglas Paul
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Sep 24, 2002 13:58:29 GMT
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My processor was also running slower than before, and this would make sense, as it is controlled off the same sensor as the automatic shutdowns.
And, just in response to Todd's July 3rd post, running the system with the processor slightly out of the socket will quite likely cause more problems than it's going to solve.
If the laptop ran for a months fine, and only just now started shutting down, something failed. Quite likely a thermal sensor. Trying to keep your computer cooler may not work, because it's most likely the sensor didn't fail in a way that causes it to read temperatures that are always higher by some fixed amount. Otherwise, there'd be just as much people complaining that their computers got so hot the CPUs fried.
Anyway, lifting the CPU out of the socket will increase the noise on the CPU pins, affect loading, and increase emissions. And since all of these chips are designed to lose their thermal energy through the top, you won't help much.
The thermal grease is a good idea though. And the springs are more likely to ensure there is pressure on the CPU (to increase conduction) than so it floats.
That was just a little warning before you try that stuff at home...
I'd be willing to bet the only real solution here would be for HP to go after the manufacturer of the sensor (if that's really the problem, but it sure seems like it) and get them to admit there's something wrong and fix it (which isn't always easy). Either that, or replace the sensor on the board with a different model whenever one comes in for service. |
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Jason Johansen
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Oct 7, 2002 23:02:27 GMT
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HP zt 1190
Win XP Professional
I can get mine to shut down on demand. I first noticed it when playing a game (Blasterball 2) that came with the laptop. I can also get it to fail using one of my companies proprietary applications.
However, it also fails randomly. Web Browsing, Reading email, typing a document.
I think I am still under warranty and may try to return it after all the posts I've read about it. |
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Bill Nixon
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Oct 7, 2002 23:41:20 GMT
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I am having the power off problem with an xh485 laptop. It occurs both under Windows XP and Linux, so it seems to be a hardware not software problem. I have the latest BIOS. It doesn't seem heat releated since it has occured after the laptop has been powered off over night.
Any suugestions other than buying a DELL? :-) |
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Douglas Paul
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Oct 8, 2002 02:06:39 GMT
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Well, I sent my laptop in for service with this problem, and it came back working fine again.
The problem is apparently with the heat sink. I guess there is a temperature sensor in there that fails. Anyway, 5 business days, and you get it back working (hopefully).
It's definitely simpler than fighting with it, and the people on the support line acknowledged the problem and didn't even bother with going through software settings. |
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Vergine Kreakopyan
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Oct 12, 2002 21:00:27 GMT
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Just to let you know, as i'm sure you've been hearing from everyone...It's not gonna get better, and if you fedex it in, they're not gonna do anything except reformat it and send it back, and though the problem will stop for a couple of days...it's not gonna go away...I've been hearing defective motherboards, to fans, to just display, being the cause of the problem...I haven't had my laptop for even a year...I'm waiting for the factory warrenty to be over, then the place i got it for gave me extended warrenty, and if you take it in 3X then they will credit you the amount...if they can't fix it...To h*ll with HP, I'm gonna get a dell, or toshiba...My brother has had both his dell and toshiba for 2 years now, has upgrade to xp pro and No problems whatsoever on either one. I'M BEYOND DISAPPOINTED, and UNSATISFIED with HP's product. |
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Jody LaFerriere
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Oct 12, 2002 21:25:59 GMT
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You know, I really do understand how angry everyone is...I went through the same problem myself. I too wish I'd done more research on boards like this before I chose my 1180.
I haven't had the shutdown problem since the new BIOS upgrade, for the record. Maybe it's a combination of that and the fact that I use a Coolpad under mine, but it hasn't shut down since the upgrade...has it been 2 months?
Keep an eye on your product's BIOS and driver page, because maybe your system has an upgrade available too. |
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Douglas Paul
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Oct 12, 2002 23:47:13 GMT
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I guess I was just lucky with the whole thing.
My laptop would always shut off within one minute while inside the BIOS. To make sure it got fixed, I clearly stated this on the letter they tell you to put on top of the keyboard. I imagine the checked that this was fixed before returning it.
To make sure I didn't get a simple reformat and then return, I reimaged the drive myself, and didn't even set up Windows. When they turned it on there, it was in the same state as when it was new. (I ghosted the drive to another PC so I could restore it when I got it back) Funny that the problem disappeared in XP, but it still happened in the BIOS and I wanted it fixed.
Well, when I got it back, the report showed that they just replaced the heat sink. There must be a sensor on it that monitors the temperature, because a hunk of metal just doesn't fail.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is what causes all the problems people have (at least with the Pavilion zt series, but probably it's the same with others) You might try requesting they replace that.
And for the packaging, when I asked the guy at HP, he said the original packaging was fine as long as you use the foam.
They ripped off some of the feet on the bottom of the laptop, and some screw covers were missing, but the replacement parts are supposed to be in the mail. It also looks like they tried to pick off the XP serial number on the bottom, but there's not much you can do about that... |
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Starry Night
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Oct 16, 2002 02:28:55 GMT
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Sorry guys for the h*ll words, but after waiting for the return of my laptop from HP for almost 2 weeks, I'm going berzerk.
Not only they cannot provide me the ETA, which could mean that they don't know what's wrong or they know what's wrong w/ the laptop but don't have the parts, HP reps on the phone, the ones I encountered lately, were also not helpful at all.
When I asked for the status of my laptop, HP rep would said "We have received your laptop but unfortunately we cannot provide you the ETA, the technicians are working on the issue"
When I refered to warranty statement about returning/refunding my money if they cannot fix the unit or giving me a new/replacement unit, HP rep would reply "I'm only the call director, giving you a refund or a replacement would be a decision of the repair department"
When I asked the rep about transftering me to the repair department, HP rep replied "I'm sorry but you can only reach the repair department via e-mail I can only direct your call to the technical support, they may be able to answer your question"
When I asked the rep about repair dept. e-mail address, Hp rep replied "I'm sorry but I do not have their e-mail address"
Duh!?
When I contacted the technical support dept. about the status of my laptop, the rep. replied "I'm sorry but I will transfer you to the customer service dept., they might be able to give you the status of your laptop"
Then, they would keep on transferring me back and forth between the customer service and technical support group and no ones would be able to give me the freakin status/ETA of my laptop and this has been going on for almost 2 weeks.
Maybe it's because I told them that I'm a university student (I told them I really need my laptop back for class) and that could be the reason why they delay the repair of my unit. |
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Douglas Paul
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Oct 16, 2002 02:41:38 GMT
Unassigned
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Well, I guess I can understand how you're frustrated. It's rough not having your computer, especially when you're not in school.
I'm not sure if your process was identical to mine (I'm in Canada too though) but the place you send the laptop to is not actually HP! It's just some place with a contract. The place I sent mine was somewhere in Richmond Hill, ON. I forget the exact name.
If you can find out from HP where your laptop was sent, you might be able to contact them directly. When I called HP to check on the status, all they did was ask for the waybill number, and then go to the Purolator website and looked up the tracking information. Well, gee, I could have done that (and already had)
I don't know how useful they will be though. As I said before, the guys I sent my laptop to actually did damage to mine. |
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Jason Johansen
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Oct 17, 2002 14:27:37 GMT
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I just want to share my experience...
I, too, had the same problem as many of you have. After trying many things on my own to fix it, I came here and saw all the other woes people were having.
So, I decided to send it in for repair. The Customer Service Agent was of little help. I told her the problem and she gave me crazy answers. So I just said, "Look, I want to send this in and get it fixed. " She obliged.
The problem was reproducible: Create an application that will peg your CPU at 100%. An easy thing to do is create a VB app that loops ontinuously and does a DOEVENTS in the loop. This causes the OS to refresh the desktop constantly and forces the CPU to 100%. Run it and wait about 10-30 seconds. Your computer will shut down if you have the same problem. Now, it also shut down at times when it wasn't at 100%, but I could always force it to by pegging the CPU.
I sent this information to HP along with my laptop. It went out on a Friday. It was back by Wednesday Afternoon (I was out of the office so it could have been back sooned).
On my Troubleshooting ticket the worte in REPAIRED - THEMAL MODULE and that they were able to reproduce.
So, they have obviously had this problem and can fix it. If you can recreate the problem above, I'd document it and SEWD it with the laptop to HP. Don't bother too much with the CS rep you talk to, they may not get everything written down anyway.
Just wanted to shed a little clearer light on the subject. |
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Jason Johansen
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Oct 17, 2002 14:53:27 GMT
Unassigned
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Holy CARP! I should have read that before I posted it. Tons o' spelling errors. Sorry about that, I hope you can understand it.
By the way CARP was intentional. |
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Greg Mohney
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Oct 22, 2002 05:47:47 GMT
Unassigned
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To all:
I have this exact problem.
ZT1130 - ~8 months old.
Began powering off intermittently during normal usage, then powering off more frequently during heavy CPU/disk usage.
IT IS MOST CERTAINLY A THERMAL PROBLEM.
I do not know whether cooling mechanisms within the laptop (fan, heatsink, etc) are actually failing, or the thermal sensor itself is out of whack.
I can say definitively that anyone reading this thread and thinking "Yeah, that's my laptop!"...you are having a thermal problem.
I have watched the thermal sensor in this device climb slowly and slowly, hovering at very hot temperatures, and when a highly CPU or disk intensive process is run the temperature easily passes the "trip" point for S5 (in other words, the thermal thinks the notebook is so hot that it turns itself off, preventing damage to the internal components).
Call HP support. Tell them you are having overheating problems. Cite some of the information on these boards ("Everyone is having this problem!" won't likely help; try something like "I think this might be a known issue regarding the thermal sensor").
At any rate do not give up. I am sending my laptop to HP tomorrow and, from the sounds of this board, I really expect them to be immediately aware of the issue and able to resolve it. If not, well then. |
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Dennis Yost
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Oct 22, 2002 20:32:31 GMT
Unassigned
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I've been reading these posts for a few months now and it's happened to me... I have a Pavilion n5150 for personal use. 2 months ago it started to suddenly power off. Apparently under the same M.O. as everybody else. It typically happens while using CPU intensive applications, which for this notebook is everytime I power it up it seems. I've sent e-mails to HP tech. support about the issue and even provided the link to this and related forum topics and received the typical: "it is not a known issue at this time". Since my notebook is out of warranty, I've been told the min. charge will be ~$269.00 with no guarantee that it will be fixed or that my HDD won't be reformatted. I'm very disappointed in this HP product. I've had a Dell notebook (used for work) for over 3 years with NO problems. If it's a flaw in the design, HP should address the issue... |
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Starry Night
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Oct 23, 2002 00:11:01 GMT
Unassigned
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I don't think HP will ever address this issue. I had no problems w/ other HP products in the past, but that's just not the case w/ a HP laptop.
The supports and service that HP have for their laptops are also much more limited, when compare to other companies. Their desktops and printers may be good, but from now on I will never ever buy another from HP.
I sent my laptop to HP Canada for repair on October 2, 2002 and now I haven't received it back yet.
:(
(Inappropriate language removed by forum moderator.) |
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Greg Mohney
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Oct 23, 2002 06:15:03 GMT
Unassigned
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Heart,
I have read many of your posts on this forum and sympathise. I feel the same way about how Best Buy treated me regarding this laptop. I am hoping I get lucky, and the particular techs working on the day that my laptop comes in know what to do and I get my laptop back in a useable fashion.
Hopefully HP USA will have it together...after all this flack they should. At any rate, I did narrow my problem down at the very least, so I have something to come back with if they jerk me around. If so I guess I'll be in the same boat as you.
I will say, though, that the reports of laptops successfully "fixed" with a repair note of "thermal unit repair" heartens me, as I could tell this is what my problem was (watching the ACPI thermal messages).
FedEx picked up my laptop today...at least HP's tracking page is updating. We'll see...
I loved the laptop so far, and would hate for this to become a bad experience.
Greg |
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Starry Night
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Oct 24, 2002 03:03:56 GMT
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I hope you will get your laptop back soon, Greg.
Cheers,
:) |
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Greg Mohney
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Oct 25, 2002 19:26:52 GMT
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All -
I am happy to report that I recieved my laptop back from HP today, October 25th. Four-day turnaround, not bad. On the piece of paper sent with the notebook, it was noted that my problem was "reproduced" and they repaired the "thermal pad / module".
Anyone having this problem out of warranty I feel for you, sounds like it is a widespread issue. But I must give HP USA much thanks for resolving the problem in a timely manner.
(Although they DID reimage my hard drive, oh well, I knew the risks).
Thanks HP! And good luck to others out there. Remember...
if they cant fix it for free at least be aware of what the problem is...THERMAL.
Greg Mohney |
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Tom A Resler
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Oct 28, 2002 00:41:03 GMT
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After reading all this, it's hard to imagine that i can actually ADD anything useful to this discussion, but here goes. I am the 'proud' owner of a zt1180, having bought it used about 3 months ago. The first thing I did after buying the laptop was dump the 'factory' load, and install a clean XP Pro load. I routinely run Seti@home, which causes the machine to run at 100% CPU usage,and 1.2Ghz. This mode makes the fan run at full speed, and up until a few weeks ago, did not cause any problems. HOWEVER, about 3 weeks ago, I decided to install the video drivers for the S3 Twister video adapter. Starting shortly thereafter, the laptop started into this 'spontaneously powering down' thing. Coincidence?
Well, after some serious disassembly and testing, it has become apparent that the issue here is NOT excess heat [CPU runs at no more than 120 degrees F, even under full load], but a faulty thermal protection circuit. Curiously, removing the S3 drivers has not helped, as the machine still shuts down after only 5 minutes at full load, even from a cold start.
I can still run all day at 800 Mhz, but 1.2 Ghz is out of the question. My question is this: can anyone tell me exactly where this thermal sensor is located on the mainboard? Lacking that, is there a utility available that would allow me to 'lock' the CPU in the 800Mhz mode?
[XP has the speedstep functionality 'built in', and modifying the pertinent registry keys has had no effect] |
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Douglas Paul
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Oct 28, 2002 02:06:29 GMT
Unassigned
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My observations were the same, especially since mine would shut off when cold, and the fan would kick in at high speed and only cold air came out. The thermal sensor is most likely a defective part, and will just fail after a time.
Judging from what the repair was, the thermal sensor seems to be part of the heat sink assembly. It would probably void your warranty to check that though. If you do, make sure you clean off any thermal compound and reapply either thermal grease or a phase change compound. I've seen processors fry because the heat sink was removed and reattached without replacing the thermal compound. |
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Douglas Paul
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Oct 28, 2002 02:10:31 GMT
Unassigned
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One other quick note ... locking the processor at 800 MHz may not help your situation. As you know, the computer does that to try to reduce the heat being produced to allow it to cool. Since the sensor is bad, it will still think it's overheating beyond the critical point and shut it down. Your best bet is to get it in for repair. I don't think it has anything to do with CPU usage, because it definitely didn't in my case. |
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Tom A Resler
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Oct 28, 2002 08:07:16 GMT
Unassigned
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I have had the machine apart, and found that the factory heatsink 'solution' is not implemented very well. The thermal compound that HP uses seems to be an adhesive of sorts, and was applied in a very uneven way. The heatsink assembly consists of an integrated, spring mounted heat spreader/heat pipe, that transfers the CPU's heat to the black fins in the fan's airstream. The Heatsink/heat pipe is a strictly mechanical device, with no eletrical connections. Applying a high grade thermal compound when reassembling resulted in a much better transfer of heat, namely a higher heat sink temp.
There are times, when the speedstep function gets 'confused', and seems to be stuck at 800 Mhz. When this happens, a 100% CPU usage will cause the fan to run at it's highest speed continuously, but the CPU temp never gets above 105 degrees F. In any case this is not enough to trip the thermal device.
As for CPU usage vs. temperature, it is well established that an idle CPU puts out a lot less heat than one that is running at 100%.
Overall, I am very dissatisfied with the zt1180, and the way HP has responded to customer complaints regarding this issue. [read:stonewalling!]
I believe this a design flaw, and should be treated as such by the company.
Are you listening, HP? |
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Starry Night
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Oct 28, 2002 12:00:32 GMT
Unassigned
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I think HP do not pay much attention to this problem, or else this problem would have been fixed long time ago.
I was even told by the customer service department supervisor, when I complained about this issue, that there are so many satisfied HP laptop customers. What was he trying to say? What did he try to imply? Maybe he just wanted to tell me that the unsatisfied customers are insignificant since there are so many satisfied ones; that's just my 2 cents though. One thing I've learned is that I will never ever buy any HP products anymore. |
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Douglas Paul
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Oct 28, 2002 13:00:53 GMT
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The adhesive they apply is probably a phase-change compound, like what you find on the bottom of desktop CPU heat sinks. It starts as a paste, and when it heats up, becomes solid. It's supposed to be more conductive as it is more resistant to losing contact as the CPU/heat sink expand and contract differently. I've found on other computers that thermal grease keeps the CPU much cooler. I'm not sure why CPU manufacturers recommend that you don't use it though. They say it dries up, but I haven't found that to be a problem yet.
Also, are you saying it will only shut down at 100% CPU usage? In my case, the CPU speed was locked at the lowest, but this was because the sensor was reading the temperature to be very high. If I started the machine cold, and just went into the BIOS setup, it would shut off within a minute, every time.
Perhaps the sensors are extremely flaky though, and everyone's fails in a slightly different way. |
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Jeff Moyer
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Oct 31, 2002 01:50:02 GMT
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zu1175 adding a dito
Same here.
XP blue screened first boot out of the box (and within 5 minutes everytime after).
Wiped XP out and put 2k and linux on it.
Both crash, or power down all the time. I can not get more than 2 hours in without a reboot. Starting on battery so that the cpu runs at 500Mhz instead of 700 seems more stable but it still blue screens (linux just freezes).
Since this is not my primary machine I have just been dealing for the last month not wanting to deal with support, but now I am going out of country for a few weeks and all the problems seems to be getting worse as I get ready to go and load all my tools.
Plan on flashing the bios tonight, but after reading this I'm not expecting much except a bad trip and an even bigger chip on my shoulder against HP (I should of known after working with a few thousand HP intel servers that HP and intel don't mix).
All i can say is HP better fix this. I purchased this unit refurbished, wonder why. I had a gut feeling I should have forked the cash over for an IBM. |
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Menotti
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Oct 31, 2002 11:12:00 GMT
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Whow, I feel sorry for all of you that are having this happening, maybe HP will respond to this soon, I have a Ze5170 and before I updated my drivers a blue screen use to flash and the computer would restart, thats not whats happening to you guys right? Its just a simple turn off? I know this is a hella annoying problem HP should really say something or look into it. |
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n
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Oct 31, 2002 18:28:38 GMT
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Quick question.
I don't believe my zt1135 is running scandisk when it boots after it suddenly shuts off. Isn't XP supposed to run scandisk after it shuts down improperly? Has anyone noticed this? Or has it always been a "normal boot after crash" scenario? |
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Douglas Paul
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Oct 31, 2002 20:04:32 GMT
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If you're using NTFS on your hard drives, you shouldn't see a scandisk after a power off or any other crash. This is because NTFS is what is called a journalling file system, and corruption does not result from a crash, unlike other file systems.
If you're using FAT though, you should see scandisk run.
This is the way it is at least with Windows 2000, I'm assuming XP is the same. |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 3, 2003 22:00:45 GMT
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I have the same problem, my HP powers off for no reason, I have a pavilion. But here is the stupid part, it worked fine at first and I told everyone I know to buy one and I told my law office to buy them. I sold more HP laptops than anyone. By the way, support is totally useless, the only thing you can do is cut your losses and buy a dell. HP's are a rip off, a total nightmare
*This post has been edited to remove potentially offensive language. Chel - Forum Moderator |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 3, 2003 22:37:02 GMT
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HP/COMPAQ: Please, please, please respond and at least tell us why our computers dont work and what you are prepared to do about it, your support staff either know nothing about it or are continuing to defraud us by charging outrageous amounts to do nothing. |
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Jim Cunliffe
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Jan 4, 2003 22:05:12 GMT
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ZE5000 - happened to me yesterday - system is 3 weeks old. Saw this post and thought "What am I in for?" Fortunately, I have a maintenance plan through the reseller - if it's returned 3 times for the same defect, I get a full replacement with whatever the equivalent product is at the time of replacement.
Anyone else out there purchase a maintenance plan?
*This post has been edited to remove potentially offensive language. Chel - Forum Moderator |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 5, 2003 00:08:36 GMT
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Jim Cunliffe, seriously, I would not want a replacement HP, the laptops are worthless, I have sent mine in for another, replaced everything and it is still absolutelutely worthless. If you can, take the computer back somehow and get a DELL or something. All you will get is the runaround from HP like the rest of us have. HP does not give a Rat's behind about any of us and how we have been ripped off. Seriously, if you have 30 days to take it back, do it. HP has been of no help and it is the most frustrating experience a consumer can suffer. Please get out while you can.
Okorie
*This post has been edited to remove potentially offensive language. Chel - Forum Moderator |
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Randall Hailer
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Jan 5, 2003 09:52:49 GMT
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It's disturbing to see that this problem has persisted for such a length of time.
After 2 days of ownership, my new ze4125 is exhibiting this problem. Worked fine for two days, and not more than an hour and a half ago it just started randomly turning off and refusing to boot back up.
Having read this thread, I think I'm just going to return it to Circuit City this afternoon. I'm going to be moving around a lot in the next 6 months, and I just haven't got time to put up with ineffective consumer support and faulty hardware. |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 7, 2003 05:41:19 GMT
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Hello folks, do NOT contact HP support, it is absolutely worthless. They just pretend to have never heard of the problem and tell you to run diagnostics and what-not. They are no help and will not fix the problem. I speak from personal experience. |
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Douglas Paul
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Jan 7, 2003 14:46:18 GMT
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If you can take it bad, great.
There are a number of people above who were able to get them to take it in for service. Just read the whole thread for their suggestions.
If you can get it to fail outside of any operating system, that's probably the easiest way to get it in for service, since then it can't be a software problem. Just try going into the BIOS on bootup and leave it there. If it shuts off there, just tell them that, they should let you return it. |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 9, 2003 19:06:03 GMT
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The great thing about HP support is they offer to charge you 75% of the original cost of your computer to pretend to fix the problem. Then the problem happens again and you have to pay another 75% of the original cost of your computer. It is a vicious cycle, but it is how HP makes its money. |
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Jim Cunliffe
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Jan 10, 2003 18:18:56 GMT
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Okorie
The shutdown occurred before I updated a video driver and while I had the laptop on my lap reclined on my sofa...shame on me...but it only occurred the one time and I always have it in my lap.
The service plan is through a 3rd party - the contract is a for a new product at the value I paid for the ZE5000. It's good for 3 years - if the issue occurs more with age and it's a design issue, I'm sure I won't have a problem through the 3rd party as it's language is very clear what qualifies and what doesn't. In any event, I'm in the industry and can deal with minor issues. Dell's are overpriced by about $600 for inferior performance (cpu wise). They do however, have excellent support.
Thanks for commenting on my note above...hey Chel..what was in my post that was offensive????? I'm a little offended that you censored a post when I don't swear!?! |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 10, 2003 19:30:48 GMT
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Jim, What would you recommend in lieu of a Dell, and dont say HP, they are just plain horrible. |
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Chel Greene
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Jan 10, 2003 21:01:47 GMT
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Hello Jim -
We appreciate your participation on the forum and the great suggestions you have for other customers.
The forum is provided for peer-to-peer support and the sharing of information. Any inappropriate language or tone will be edited from the post. This is not limited to 'swear words'. The community needs to be built with respect for all involved.
Thanks -
Chel |
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Jody LaFerriere
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Jan 11, 2003 01:51:55 GMT
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When I first had this problem it was almost a year ago. I participated in several threads here on this subject. I also did some research on the web, and found that one other type of HP system had this same problem and a BIOS upgrade was made that addressed the problem.
I called HP a couple of times to ask for a BIOS upgrade that would address the same thing.
Eventually there was one. I loaded it...and my system has NOT shut down since. And I leave it on all day long. I swear, that solved the problem for me. Have you looked to see if there are BIOS updates for the systems you purchased? Even if you bought it a month ago, it could have been sitting in the warehouse since last spring... |
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Jim Cunliffe
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Jan 11, 2003 20:21:41 GMT
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Thanks Chel.
Okorie - If you aren't going w/ an HP then definitely get a Dell. Dell has a very stable product in their Lattitude line. I just don't like how pricey they are. They advertise real cheap 8200's and when you go to the website, the minute you modify the system, it skyrockets in price. Even if you remove all the options and go as bare as you can, the Dell was $600 more than my HP for less performance (1.7Ghz to 2.4Ghz). The only advantage which I could see is the Dell's use mostly Nvidia chipsets in all their laptops. I wish my HP had an Nvidia - the ATI isn't bad, it's just I have used Nvidia vidcards in my systems since the arrived on the market. |
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Jim Cunliffe
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Jan 13, 2003 16:43:09 GMT
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decided to give my restore cd's a test last night - ran fine all the way through. Now I have ZERO issues. I've posted problems and answers in these forums...and have seen others discuss the restore cd's have fixed their issues. I installed very little when i first got the system (ze5000) but was very surprised to perform a recovery and have NONE of the prior issues I had before. These included, random reboots (very rare for me), ATI driver issues, DVD player/burner issues, etc...
I'm glad the system recovery cd's work...nice going HP. |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 14, 2003 00:28:02 GMT
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Thanks Jim Cunliffe. On a side note, I tried the restore CD's and the same auto shutoff continued to happen =( |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 14, 2003 00:32:52 GMT
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I also sent my laptop in and HP called and said that that "main board" needed to be repaired and they wanted a mere $690 for the computer I paid $1000, in just one year. The sad part is I convinced others to purchase over 10 HP computers and they have had the same problem. Thanks HP, your the best. |
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Steve Cardona
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Jan 14, 2003 03:30:26 GMT
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Okorie, I have a Pavlion N5195 and it also had the same problem with the "sudden power off". Instead of sending it off to HP (warrenty expired), I contacted a laptop repair company (www.laptoprepairco.com)that could do board level repairs. I was told it could be one of many problems, but most likely it would be the motherboard (this seems to be major issue with HP laptops, excess heat???). The technician said they have seen this in many HP's and are able to repair only 25% of the units sent in. Of course mine fell into the 75% of unrepairable motherboards. The diagnostic was free, and I'm sure any repairs would be much cheaper than the fee HP wants to charge you, if the mobo is repairable. As for me, I purchased a new motherboard (from HP, DoH!)and installed it myself (took a little less than an hour). It's not very difficult and you may find a local computer shop that can help. Good luck and I hope this helps. |
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Douglas Paul
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Jan 14, 2003 03:56:59 GMT
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I'm not sure if this is any help, but in my case the warranty work was just to replace the heat sink. I'm assuming that the sensor (which failed) must be in there, because I know for sure my problem wasn't heat related, as mine would shut off reliably after about a minute powered up, from cold.
It's a cheaper part, but you probably are better off getting something new to replace it...
These problems are annoying, because I originally got my HP (in June) to replace a 4-year old Toshiba that I never had a single problem with. Now it's in for warranty again (the hard drive failed) since I got it. I guess the IBM Travelstars are notorious for this, but I seem to be having terrible luck. |
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Zach
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Jan 18, 2003 07:22:30 GMT
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i just got my laptop on the 26th of december and not two weeks went by before my first power off. My screen flashed a blue background with what appeared to be white text all over the place, then shut off. I bought my notebook from Best Buy and i also purchased the 3 year extended plan (hopefully that will help). I seemed to be able to replicate this problem, when i play the game Hitman 2, it will always do this. I have searched these threads and found that there may be a problem with the ATI M6 Mobility video card that HP decided to put in my notebook. i am away at school so this will probably be impossible to resolve. HOPEFULLY i can send it away without having troubles and i can get the problems fixed. |
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Zach
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Jan 18, 2003 07:26:07 GMT
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btw, i have a ze5155 and i am also having trouble with windows saving my settings on exit. I have a windows explorer mouse and when i change settings on the mouse, they will only stay on while unless i restart. Anyone know how to fix this? |
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Okorie Okorocha
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Jan 19, 2003 20:00:21 GMT
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thank you very much Steve Cardona, that was very helpful and insightful. |
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Douglas Paul
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Jan 20, 2003 13:29:10 GMT
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Zach, those problems are unrelated to this thread. If you get a blue screen and then a power off, it's just a crash.
There's an option to stop it automatically rebooting after displaying those, so you can reboot. Chances are you just need to upgrade the video driver, should be no need to send it back. |
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n
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Jan 20, 2003 14:10:30 GMT
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Hi, I've been following this thread for a couple of months now, what is the synopsis here?
What are you doing or what should we all do to raise HP's attention to this problem?
What is the best way to prevent the power-off's?
Is this a heat issue? (sounds right)
Is it actually heat buildup?
Is this a faulty heat sensor?
Is it a faulty mobo?
Is it a badly programmed bios?
Is it the OS? (doesn't sound like it)
How about a letter (email)campaign? Who should it be directed to?
Thanks to all who've contributed! |
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Lane P Lester
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Jan 20, 2003 19:20:00 GMT
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I have a Pavilion XH485 and soon after I bought it, I started having the "power-downs." I bought from CyberGuys a pad with 3 electric fans in it to cool the box. This worked for enough months to get me out of warranty, but now it's occuring sporadically. I would like to open up the box and add some thermal grease, but I can't get the thing open.
There are several screws under the hinge, and I can't figure how to get to them. I took out the two little screws on the hinge covers, but they seem to be part of a bigger plastic piece above the keyboard. Can you tell me how to proceed?
Lane |
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duff
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Jan 22, 2003 23:10:11 GMT
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Hi all: see my post to kathy of 22 january. I have the same problem with my N5415 and demanded and recieved a full 100% in store refund but had to scream and kick to get it. |
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Steve Cardona
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Jan 24, 2003 03:16:48 GMT
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Paul Rogers
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Jan 29, 2003 21:06:11 GMT
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I just started looking for info on why my 9 month old zt1170 turns off suddenly while my kids play games on it and am disappointed to read the posts here about what is going on with HP.
Our computer turns off everytime they play games on it and it is useless for their entertainment.
I have noticed that there are 2 fans I hear with this laptop, our computer will only shut down after the second fan has been on for a few minutes. I am not a expert on computers as others who have posted here but I am rapidly becoming a dissatisfied HP customer. |
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Lane P Lester
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Jan 29, 2003 21:18:36 GMT
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Thanks for the tech manual link, Steve; I'm downloading it now.
Paul, I am able to keep my machine going by using external fans. The neatest arrangement is a laptop cooler pad from CyberGuys. It's about $30 and is a plastic pad that goes under the laptop. It has three powered fans in it that do a good job of taking off the heat.
Lane |
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Mark Dochtermann
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Feb 4, 2003 17:41:36 GMT
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I have seen this on my HP Pavilion N5490.
What I have noticed is that the CPU was running at 100%. The table the laptop was sitting on (an dining room oak table) got very warm indeed.
Anyone else notice what the CPU was doing ?
Regards
Doc |
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duff
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Feb 6, 2003 00:31:59 GMT
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In regards cpu usage and sudden shutdowns I don't think this relates directly. I run the seti@home program and so my cpu is always running at 100% even when "idle" and I have my computer sitting on a cooling rack for baking so it has very good airflow etc.
It is a chronic problem with these models and I am pretty sure that not even HP can come up with a fix or they would have done so.
You may notice that it becomes more frequent as time goes by. Mine started out doing it on rare occasion and then got to the point where it wouldn't run more than 20 minutes at a time.
I now have a replacement for that machine (N5415), I had it replaced with a ze4115 and haven't had the problem yet.
If you are near the expiration of the warrenty I recommend you get it in for service or replacement.
See my previous posts on this topic for how that can be done. |
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Samuel Mathew
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Feb 10, 2003 16:40:46 GMT
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I have the same problem.. I thought it is a heating problem as my fan was stalling and ordered one set of heatsink/fan assembly. But looking from the responses in this forum, I doubt if this will help. THis problem seems to be wide spread and I am surprised that HP has not addressed this or made a recall. I plan to send a mail to Kim Komando of the Kim Komando show and alert her about this issue with HP that is wide spread. Let the world know this and HP come to its senses. *IN one way or the other the world needs to know about this and get HP to solve this manufacturing defect...
Comments welcome.
Regards
Sam
*<<message edited by moderator to remove legal threats which are not allowed on this forum>> |
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Jenna Keevil
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Feb 11, 2003 04:29:12 GMT
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Same thing happened to me, they told me it was the mother board but it turned out to be a bad mouse driver... however thats all connected I dont know. It would happen when my mouse was turned off.. But after HP took it for a month I got it back and its been working fine now for the 3 days Ive had it |
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R
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Feb 11, 2003 16:06:33 GMT
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My Pavilion n5415 would shut down with warning. I got the latest BIOS from the HP website and the problem completely disappeared.
I had Bios version GE.M1.01 and everything was fine until I ran the Disk Defragmenter utility in Windows XP Home. Then programs would not start, the machine ran really slow. Then it started shutting down after 10 minutes, completely powering off suddenly no matter what I was doing. The next day, it would shut off after about 2 minutes.
I put in a brand new hard drive, right out of the sealed wrapper, unformatted. I started the machine with a dos boot disk and it still would not even run long enough to format the hard drive. That eliminated any software problems or hard drive connection issues. So I knew I had a different problem.
I downloaded the latest Bios (GE.M1.04) from the HP website, followed the instructions and created a Bios Boot Disk. Put the disk in the floppy drive, turned on the power, upgraded the Bios and the problem disappeared.
A word of warning -- question any advice from HP support and do your own research before using their advice. I myself, am very glad I did not follow the advice I received from HP. I am really upset that they cost me $150 for a new hard drive that I did not need because they were unaware of this problem. They said they had never heard of it. I wonder if fixing this problem is a big money maker for HP. |
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Eric Nickell
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Feb 11, 2003 16:33:00 GMT
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R,
You ran Microsoft???s Defrag, and because this messed your unit up that is HPs fault??? MS defrag has been known to cause problems for years!!! And what made you change your HDD??? Because the unit ran slow??? The BIOS upgrade was the only thing you did right??? It sounds like your debugging method was at fault, not HP??? |
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John Ryckman
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Feb 12, 2003 06:33:23 GMT
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yes the same thing happened to me and numerous others in this discussion group. I had to send my computer to HP in Toronto, I live in Vancouver and it took HP a month to get it back to me. They replaced the motherboard and this has helped for the last month or so. I am sorry that you arte having the problem. HP is not to good a recognizing the kind of inconvenience that this problem causes their customers as is shown by this discussion thread. Good luck. |
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John Ryckman
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Feb 12, 2003 06:58:25 GMT
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In regard to Eric Nickell. What are you takling about. It is ridiculous for you to propose that defragin g is the problem. I have never heard of this sudden power off issue with any other brand. If you really think that this is defrag's fault give your head a shake. I updated bios and tried dozens of thiungs to solve this problem. The fault lies with HP. There is an overheating problem that is a design defect. Their customers should not have to deal with this at all. Dell, Toshiba do not have this problem and service for these brands is delt with locally and promptly. Such bad customer service from such a well established brand is completely unacceptable. |
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Starry Night
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Feb 12, 2003 07:45:34 GMT
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IBM never put desktop processors in their laptops.
I talked to a Dell rep; he told me that Dell will no longer be offering the laptops with desktop processors in the very near future. He told me way too many laptops with desktop processors, went defective. In case that I want to buy one, he suggested me to go with the one that uses mobile processor. Or in case that I really want to save some money, he suggested me not to go with the one, with a desktop processor over 2.0GHz. I could instantly see the difference in the knowledge of HP and Dell rep. How much he cares for the customer, even that might result in the poor sale/over stocking of the SmartStep series, which is BTW being discontinued.
(I'm planning on selling my current HP laptop on eBay.)
HP/Compaq will be the only one of the big three to offer laptops with desktop processors. If desktop processors are really suitable for laptops, why is HP the only one to offer the desktop processor-based laptops?
I did a research, before I got my current HP laptop. HP listed the processor in my ZT1260 as the mobile Pentium 4. However, I feel like I was deceived, when later I found out that the processor in my laptop is not the P4-M. It doesn't have the enhanced speed-step technology, but yet HP listed it as a mobile processor. I found this out when it's too late because it was already over 15 days; I could return it within the first 15 days after I purchased. I know, printing error can occur, but still I feel betrayed. Not to mention that it took HP 4 weeks to repair my laptop that I thought they send my laptop to Iraq.
I'll still buy other HP products though, but I'll never ever going to buy another HP laptop ever again. If you really love your love ones, friends, tell them to stay away from HP laptops at all cost. |
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Doug Edwards
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Feb 14, 2003 17:59:16 GMT
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Here is what I learned about my sudden shutdowns of N5125.
----------------------------------------------
DIAGNOSTIC REPORT
----------------------------------------------
N5125 B50
We have finished diagnosing your computer and need to know where to take the
repair from here.
The problem is the video memory on the mainboard. This cannot be repaired.
1. With your authorization we can proceed with this repair. The cost is
$699.00/mainboard exchange, $75/labor, plus tax and return shipping.
2. We can return this unit to you. Please call to arrange return insured
shipping payment of $20.00.
3. We can offer to purchase the unit from you. Please inquire if
interested.
Thank you,
Laptop Service
1-800-786-4311
M-F 10a-3p PST
HP has lost my business. |
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Lane P Lester
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Feb 14, 2003 18:40:26 GMT
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Quote: HP has lost my business.
Mine, too, for printers, scanners, and computers... and not just because of this one problem.
I'm sure glad that the addition of thermal grease between the CPU and heat sink, plus dust bunny removal, seems to have cured my box of shutoffs.
Lane |
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Doug Edwards
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Feb 14, 2003 18:43:51 GMT
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I should have added to above- this diagnosis was provided N/C by www.laptoprepairco.com, a reputable company in S. California. I paid for shipping only. |
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duff
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Feb 14, 2003 19:45:07 GMT
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As I have stated in the past in this discussion and others, there is an opportunity for redress from HP if the computer is still under it's warranty. I recieved a 100% in store credit for the purchase of a new laptop to replace my N5415 which was suffering from the sudden shutdown syndrome. You should do the same if yours is under warranty still. You can refer to case number 7300098902 as precedent for your own case. I had to scream and kick to get this done but in the end they did buy back my old machine for the full sale price.
There are also "lemon laws" which may apply in your state to consider if all else fails. |
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Doug Edwards
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Feb 14, 2003 20:18:19 GMT
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In the case of this N5125, it is out of warranty. The laptop had very few hours of use-very gentle use. I will be looking to HP for some kind of remedy- will report back to this forum. |
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frank wagner
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Feb 16, 2003 13:30:37 GMT
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I have a Pavilion n5270 and went through the same thing. And it shut down every time I turned it on about 3-10 minutes after. Because it went out after the warranty I let it sit under my bed for over a year. I don't know if it's related, but I went into BIOS setup, let it sit for a while to see if it would shut down while in this mode. It didn't. Then I disabled speedstep and quiet boot. The problem has seemed to go away. I've had it on for hours at a time with no problem. |
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Zach
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Feb 16, 2003 17:50:17 GMT
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duff, i bought my computer at best buy in florence, KY. I recently had my laptop sent away to fix the power offs, they replaced the hd and the ram, but it still powers off. How can i tell them to refer to case #70098902? is it in a book somewhere that says what that case # does?
btw, how do i look up the lemon laws for my state? |
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duff
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Feb 16, 2003 19:42:33 GMT
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the case number I quote was from my own complaint to HP Customer Service in Canada. I would suggest you ask for (demand) a complete instore refund such as I recieved and quote that number and my name Duffrey Sigurdson as well as this website forum for the precedent for them to treat you the same as they treated me. You can also research lemon laws at http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/ which includes info by state and is applicable to computers.
Also write to Carly Fiorina the CEO of HP at this link and tell her your problem. They need to hear about these problems to run the company as it should be.. http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/fiorina/index.html
good luck! |
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Lance Le
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Feb 23, 2003 00:45:57 GMT
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Doug Edwards
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Feb 26, 2003 19:23:29 GMT
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I posted here earlier regarding my sending an N5125 to an independent laptop repair company.
I received a diagnosis of 'bad video memory'.
Thanks to Eric Nickell, who has posted here, I decided not to trust the diagnosis and continue to try to resolve a probable thermal issue related to the heatsink/ CPU. To recap-
my box has been shutting down regularly for the past several weeks. I have experimented with new thermal pads, and thermal paste without positive results. In a final attempt I cleaned both CPU and heatsink with alcohol. I then applied a thin coating of silver based paste to the heatsink- next I applied a new HP supplied thermal pad to the heatsink. I then applied a very thin layer of the paste to the exposed thermal pad, and to the CPU slug (Celeron mobile 500 mhz)I carefully seated the heatsink to the CPU being careful to keep the pressure even as I gradually tightened the 4 heatsink screws in a cross pattern until they were snug. The box has been running for 72 hours now. I have turned it off- let it cool completely and then back on. It has not shut down. I see that Lance Le has recently posted with pretty much the same experience. I am sure that we will all be anxious to hear of others here that will try this procedure. I should also add that I believe that it is important that all entries into your computer should be with the use of a proper grounding strap to guard against accidental static discharge to the various components. |
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Doug Edwards
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Mar 8, 2003 00:47:43 GMT
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UDATE to above- as of this date this laptop is stable with no thermal shutdowns.
Testing has included 24 hours on then 24 hours off- back on etc. Testing included heavy CPU usage, and no external cooling devices or adding of extra air space. Before the CPU/ heatsink procedure the box would not stay on for more than a few minutes.
Good luck. |
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Samuel Mathew
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Mar 8, 2003 02:32:22 GMT
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I have an update also about my Pavilion. I just opened the laptop (thanks to the gentlemen who e-mailed me service manuals)and cleaned the heat sink and the fan of any lint and dirt and refixed everything. Since then I have not had any shut downs. It is almost a month now. I don't use it more than 8 hours at a time. I used to leave it on for several days earlier. I am just careful now. I am not sure which helped me. towards the advanced stage of my problem, the machine used to shutdown with in a hour. At least it doesn't happen now.I got a new problem though!. My scroll lock button light above the inbuilt mouse pad comes on automatically when I touch any place near by. Any suggestions? I tried opening the laptop again to readjust things, but it just happens. any body else had such problems? |
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